Curse

Swingline · Dec 09, 2011, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErrantVenture

See, even that would be too strong. Any skill which has the potential to do 180 AoE damage shouldn't have ANY additional effects. To make the game balanced at all, you can't have skills that are effective at performing multiple roles at once. Basically skills that allow players to have large amounts of utility and damage at the same time are inherently overpowered. Every single one of the elites changed here do exactly that: they pack massive damage and massive utility into a single skill (often with no downside other than positioning, which is a downside inherent in EVERY skill).

One thing I think you should consider is these skills all deal elemental damage which is reduced by armor. Anet knows PvPers pack high armor so they are just evening the playing field against armor ignoring damage. I agree that the multitude of conditions is OP. Especially blind. Why does Anet hit melee with shit like this? Dervs have the best defense against blind so Sins and most of all Warriors suffer the most.

EDIT: I found the list vader gave annoying to read because its a giant wall of conglomerated text.

Skills

Elementalist

Armor of Frost: reduced recharge to 20 seconds; added the following functionality: "You have +1 Water Magic." Removed "Ends if you use Fire Magic."

Blinding Surge: added the following functionality: "This spell has 25% armor penetration. If this spell strikes an attacking foe, all adjacent foes are also struck and this spell deals 50% more damage."

Celestial Storm: improved description.

Chain Lightning: now always causes 5 Exhaustion instead of conditionally causing 10 Exhaustion.

Churning Earth: reduced casting time to 2 seconds.

Double Dragon: increased casting time to 1 second; increased cost to 10 Energy; increased recharge to 20 seconds; changed functionality to: "Invoke the power of the Dragon. For 8 seconds, you and target ally are enchanted with Double Dragon. Adjacent foes are dealt 5...30 fire damage each second. Additionally, when you or your ally use skills that target a foe, that foe is set on fire for 0...3 seconds."

Elemental Attunement: rescaled duration to 25...60 seconds; reduced recharge to 20 seconds; added the following functionality: "You are attuned to Air, Fire, Water, and Earth and gain +1...2 to these attributes."

Energy Blast: reduced casting time to 1.5 seconds.

Energy Boon: changed skill type to enchantment spell; increased casting time to 1 second; increased cost to 10 Energy; reduced recharge to 20 seconds; changed functionality to: "For 36...60 seconds, Energy Boon raises the maximum Health of you and target ally by 1...3 for each point of your respective maximum Energy. When this enchantment is first applied, you and your target gain 1...12 Energy. You gain an additional 1 Energy for every 2 points you have in Energy Storage."

Ether Prodigy: increased duration to 8...20 seconds; reduced damage per point of Energy to 2.

Fireball: reduced casting time to 1.5 seconds.

Freezing Gust: increased recharge to 8 seconds.

Glimmering Mark: added the following functionality: "For 10 seconds, target foe and all foes adjacent to your target take 5...25 damage each second. Foes using attack skills are Blinded for 3 seconds."

Glyph of Energy: increased recharge to 25 seconds; now affects your next 1...3 spells; reduced Energy savings to 10...25; added the following functionality: "Your elemental attributes are increased by 1...4."

Gust: changed functionality to: "For 5...11 seconds, both you and target ally move 33% faster. When you cast this spell, all foes near you and your target take 15...70 cold damage. Foes struck by Gust while attacking or moving are knocked down."

Ice Prison: removed the following functionality: "This effect ends if target takes fire damage."

Ice Spikes: reduced casting time to 1.5 seconds.

Invoke Lightning: now always causes 5 Exhaustion instead of conditionally causing 10 Exhaustion.

Lightning Surge: reduced cost to 10 Energy; reduced casting time to 1 second; added the following functionality: "Target foe has Cracked Armor for 5...20 seconds. This spell has 25% armor penetration."

Master of Magic: reduced recharge to 10 seconds; changed elemental attribute scaling to 8...14; removed Energy regeneration; removed the following functionality: "This enchantment ends if you use a non-Elementalist skill." Added the following functionality: "Your elemental spells return 30% of their Energy cost."

Mind Burn: changed functionality to: "Target foe and all adjacent foes take 15...60 fire damage. If you have more Energy than target foe, that foe and all adjacent foes take an additional 15...60 fire damage and are set on fire for 1...8 seconds."

Mind Freeze: increased damage to 10...60; increased additional damage to 10...60; reduced Exhaustion to 5; reduced recharge to 5 seconds; reduced duration to 1...5 seconds.

Mind Freeze (PvP): split for PvP; reduced Exhaustion to 5; reduced recharge to 5 seconds; reduced duration to 1...5 seconds.

Mind Shock: reduced Exhaustion to 5.

Mind Shock (PvP): split for PvP.

Mirror of Ice: reduced casting time to 0.75 seconds; reduced Energy cost to 10; reduced recharge to 12; changed functionality to: "Shatter a Mirror of Ice. All foes near you and target ally take 15...70 cold damage and move 66% slower for 2...6 seconds. If you strike a foe hexed with Water Magic,
Mirror of Ice recharges 50% faster.

Mist Form: reduced cost to 5 Energy; changed functionality to: "For 10...45 seconds, you take 33% less damage from foes under the effect of Water Magic hexes. Whenever you cast an elemental spell, all non-spirit allies in earshot are healed for 50...250% of the Energy cost of the spell."

Mist Form (PvP): split for PvP; reduced cost to 5 Energy; changed functionality to: "For 10...45 seconds, you take 33% less damage from foes under the effect of Water Magic hexes. Whenever you cast an elemental spell, all non-spirit allies in earshot are healed for 50...250% of the Energy cost of the spell. This spell does not heal allies above 80% Health."

Obsidian Flame: reduced Exhaustion to 5; reduced casting time to 1.5 seconds.

Ride the Lightning: reduced Exhaustion to 5; reduced damage to 10...70; you can now teleport to allies as well as enemies; added the following functionality: "All adjacent foes are Blinded for 1...5 seconds."

Ride the Lightning (PvP): split for PvP; increased cost to 15 Energy; increased recharge to 10 seconds; reduced Exhaustion to 5; reduced damage to 10...70; you can now teleport to allies as well as enemies; added the following functionality: "All adjacent foes are Blinded for 1...5 seconds."

Sandstorm: reduced recharge to 25 seconds.

Second Wind: reduced casting time to 1 second; reduced Exhaustion to 5; changed functionality to: "You gain 1 Energy and 5 Health for each point of Energy restricted by Exhaustion. You lose all enchantments."

Shatterstone: reduced cost to 10 Energy; changed functionality to: "Target foe is struck for 25...100 cold damage and is hexed with Shatterstone for 3 seconds. When Shatterstone ends, that foe and all nearby foes are struck for 25...100 cold damage."

Shockwave: changed functionality to: "All foes in the area take 15...60 earth damage and are Weakened for 1...10 seconds. Nearby foes also take +15...60 earth damage and have Cracked Armor for 1...10 seconds. Adjacent foes suffer the previous effects, take +15...60 earth damage, and are Blinded for 1...10 seconds."

Star Burst: reduced recharge to 7 seconds; changed functionality to: "Target touched foe and all foes in the area are struck for 7...112 fire damage and set on fire for 1...4 seconds. For each foe you hit, gain 2 Energy."

Stone Sheath: reduced recharge to 12 seconds; changed functionality to: "For 5...20 seconds, you and target ally have +1...35 armor and are immune to critical hits. When you cast this spell, all foes near you and your target take 15...70 earth damage and are Weakened for 5...20 seconds."

Teinai's Prison: removed the following functionality: "This effect ends if target takes fire damage."

Thunderclap: reduced recharge to 8 seconds; reduced damage to 10...50; added 25% armor penetration; changed functionality to: "Create a massive shockwave at target foe's location. Deals 10...50 lightning damage to target and all adjacent foes. Struck foes are interrupted and suffer from Cracked Armor and Weakness for 5...20 seconds. This spell has 25% armor penetration."

Unsteady Ground: reduced recharge to 15 seconds.

Ward Against Harm: changed functionality to: "Create a Ward Against Harm at this location. For 5...15 seconds, non-spirit allies in this area have +1...3 Health regeneration, +12...24 armor, and an additional +12...24 armor against elemental damage. This spell is disabled for 20 seconds."

Ward Against Harm (PvP): split for PvP; increased recharge to 30 seconds; changed functionality to: "Create a Ward Against Harm at this location. For 5...15 seconds, non-spirit allies in this area have +1...3 Health regeneration, +12...24 armor, and an additional +12...24 armor against elemental damage. This spell is disabled for 30 seconds."

Water Trident: changed functionality to: "Send out a fast-moving Water Trident, striking target foe and up to 2 adjacent foes for 10...90 cold damage if it hits. If it hits a moving foe, that foe is knocked down."

PurpleFission · Dec 09, 2011, 06:48 AM // 06:48

This 'update' makes me want to punch a little baby.
why do they buff ele's for pvp, instead of tone them down slightly? people have been asking for that for awhile.
As far as pve is concerned... mother of god. shockwave spike makes me want to punch a fetus.
I get the feeling the krew doesnt have the slightest idea about the current state of guildwars, the types of people this update will affect and why are they trying to introduce new concepts, when all ele's needed was a little bit of armor penetration in PvE.

Aldawg Thanes · Dec 09, 2011, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleFission

This 'update' makes me want to punch a little baby.

You already like eating babies, so the update lessens your desire to hurt babies?

On a separate note though, this does somewhat help physical damage dealers, such as rangers. The lower armor should help them cause more damage. I understand that the buffs they receive generally come from armor ignoring damage skills, but still every bit helps.

Too bad I don't play my ranger anymore.

Amy Awien · Dec 09, 2011, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Well, no, you are forgetting they plan to compensate the reduction in armor by increasing their health

Chthon · Dec 09, 2011, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErrantVenture

Most damage done by melee classes in PvE comes from armor ignoring bonus damage from skills, not weapon damage so they'll be pretty much unaffected i expect.

Currently, yes. The point is that this is going to change. Right now we look at "What's your bonus from SoH/Orders/GDW etc.?" and "What's your bonus from attack skills and on what recharge?" and pretty much treat the base as zero. If weapons start doing their list damage all of the sudden, then it's going to matter whether your average base damage is 37 (hammer, custom, 15^50) or 17 (dagger, custom, 15^50). Now, I'm not saying that's it's going to be such a strong factor that it outweighs every other concern; but it will finally stop being a non-factor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

It has been speculated quite a bit that armor will be reduced to what profession the mob is.

That, without knowing what the hp increase will be, gives us no way of knowing whether we're looking at a net buff or net nerf -- or even a balanced outcome. My point was that Mireles's comment was totally unsupported by the information I've seen so far. And it still is.

Swingline · Dec 09, 2011, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

That, without knowing what the hp increase will be, gives us no way of knowing whether we're looking at a net buff or net nerf -- or even a balanced outcome. My point was that Mireles's comment was totally unsupported by the information I've seen so far. And it still is.

This is true but it makes sense. It would bring elemental damage back up to compete with spirits and Mesmer damage.

The only concern I have is its a nerf to HM mob healers, unless HM mobs get 20% more from healing or something.

Daesu · Dec 09, 2011, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aldawg Thanes

On a separate note though, this does somewhat help physical damage dealers, such as rangers. The lower armor should help them cause more damage. I understand that the buffs they receive generally come from armor ignoring damage skills, but still every bit helps.

Too bad I don't play my ranger anymore.

Like Chthon and I have already said:

Quote:

without knowing what the hp increase will be, gives us no way of knowing whether we're looking at a net buff or net nerf -- or even a balanced outcome.

For armor ignoring damages, however, it would obviously be a net nerf.

Mouse at Large · Dec 09, 2011, 08:35 AM // 08:35

At last, some changes to ele skills

Liking the first wave and looking forward to the second/non-elite rework. Can't see this as being game-breaking, more like game-changing.

Bring it on!!!!

kingmor · Dec 09, 2011, 09:57 AM // 09:57

This update looks great so far(especially what they did to HM enemies).
Although i didn't use most of those skills i might start using them now

.

And one more thing, what about the WoC part 3?

there was no new announcement about it whatsoever and I'm dying to get my Imperial Weapons

.

Toraen · Dec 09, 2011, 10:02 AM // 10:02

The ele and HM update didn't go live. It won't until after the holidays.

naturelover · Dec 09, 2011, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Anyone else see that?

(And no, making it unconditionally exhaust barely qualifies.)

Yeah - but you're on the wrong forum for that!

But seriously: What did you expect from ANet skill balancers?

Jeydra · Dec 09, 2011, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Much of the update is very interesting and I'll withhold comment until actually trying it, but ... I think we really didn't need more power creep on skills like Shatterstone and Water Trident. They're already good skills, have been used in the past before until they were outdone by ever more powerful skills. Just keep them the way they are and nerf those more powerful skills imo.

Also new Water Trident for 90 damage in AoE for 5e + 1s cast + 3s recharge, looks overpowered, and why is ANet saying things like "undesirable" builds ~_~

Fluffy Kittens · Dec 09, 2011, 11:15 AM // 11:15

I better finish my vanquish before the update, HM updates are good but I'm way too lazy to change my builds

aspi · Dec 09, 2011, 11:19 AM // 11:19

I wonder how this will effect intensity, I hardly use this skill now.

Swingline · Dec 09, 2011, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Much of the update is very interesting and I'll withhold comment until actually trying it, but ... I think we really didn't need more power creep on skills like Shatterstone and Water Trident. They're already good skills, have been used in the past before until they were outdone by ever more powerful skills. Just keep them the way they are and nerf those more powerful skills imo.

Also new Water Trident for 90 damage in AoE for 5e + 1s cast + 3s recharge, looks overpowered, and why is ANet saying things like "undesirable" builds ~_~

You said you would withhold comment yet you still gave one?

They are trying to give Water Magic the buff it needs for PvE. If someone wants to run Water just because they like the element they can now without seriously gimping their damage. Skills like Water Trident were not even used very much in PvE back in good ol' prophecies 2005.

PvP is a different story. It may suffer, it may not. Most of the skills are about positioning and if your party is clumped then you do deserve to lose the match.

Nerfing the Elementalist skills now would only prove fatal to the class.

X monkey boy X · Dec 09, 2011, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Tell me if im being stupid but would the amour decrease buff whirling because if it does Anet are so dumb

Jeydra · Dec 09, 2011, 11:58 AM // 11:58

^ For "much of the update", obviously. I'm not commenting on Energy Boon, Ether Prodigy, etc.

And it's got less to do with nerfing Elementalist skills now than nerfing other stuff.

snoozer80 · Dec 09, 2011, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Every update is good if it makes more people come back to PvP cuz HA is dead now.

aspi · Dec 09, 2011, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by X monkey boy X

Tell me if im being stupid but would the amour decrease buff whirling because if it does Anet are so dumb

No, since it would take longer for enemies to die with whirling it would rather seem a nerf. A small one since I have no idea that the new health gain in HM is.

mqstout · Dec 09, 2011, 12:43 PM // 12:43

The armor/HP swap in stupid mode (known to some as "hard mode") does considerably nerf all degen skills for those who play it.